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Oct. 26, 2026

Beyond Downloads: The Moments That Prove People Are Listening

Beyond Downloads: The Moments That Prove People Are Listening
The School of Podcasting
Beyond Downloads: The Moments That Prove People Are Listening

Key Takeaways

  • Not a single podcaster surveyed mentioned hitting a million downloads as the moment they felt they had real podcast listeners; instead, audience connection was always proven by personal outreach and community feedback.
  • A download is just a number, but receiving emails, text messages, or direct outreach transforms your perspective from simply broadcasting into the void to knowing your show is genuinely impacting real podcast listeners.
  • According to Buzzsprout stats, the median download number is often much lower than beginners expect, proving that success isn't about massive numbers, but rather about connecting with the right audience.
  • New podcasters should make it exceptionally easy for real podcast listeners to connect by testing website contact buttons and offering clear, accessible ways to leave feedback or voicemails.
  • Don't wait until you have dozens of episodes banked to start promoting your show; sharing your podcast from day one prevents the soul-crushing feeling of publishing into complete silence.

When Did It Feel Like You Had "Real" Listeners?

A grocery store clerk recognized one of my listeners' co-hosts. A pharmacist gets stopped at conferences for selfies. And one podcaster got an email that ended with, "Yesterday, you and Krista saved lives." This month's Question of the Month asked how long it took before you felt like you had real listeners, and what made you realize it. Seven podcasters answered, and here's what surprised me: not one of them said "when I hit a million downloads." If you're staring at your stats wondering whether anyone is out there, press play. I'll also show you the real median download number on Buzzsprout (it's probably a lot lower than you think) and the 30-second test you should run on your website right now.

(Links to everyone's show is at the bottom of this post)

Why I Asked This Question

I'm trying to help new podcasters set realistic expectations. This month's question and next month's are both about that. So: how long did it take before it felt real, and if it doesn't feel real yet, what would make it feel that way?

Neal Veglio: Feedback, 100%

I recorded Neal's answer live on Ask the Podcast Coach when he sat in my co-host's chair. For Neal, it's feedback. Our mutual friend Rob Walsh is right that you shouldn't crap on the download, because it's the only measurement we've got. But a download is a number. An email, a text, any outreach from your community, is what tells you it's actually landing with people. When Neal gets an email, he celebrates.

Josh Liston: "We Listened to Know If We Wanted to Move Here"

Josh hosts Sake This, a short-form sketch show about news, trivia, and travel stories from Japan. But his "real audience" moment came from a hyper-local show he co-hosts with Mel called Punching Sideways. Multiple people told them they listened before moving to town (for work, the military, whatever) to learn about the local music scene, the sports stars, the art scene, the comedians. All from a podcast they started just to make each other laugh. His advice: it took a while, so stick with it.

Mark Lawley: "Yesterday, You and Krista Saved Lives"

Mark from Practical Prepping watched the download numbers like everyone else at first. The real moment came around the one-year mark, when listener emails started showing up: thank-yous, topic suggestions, and then the ones where people had followed their advice during a severe weather event or personal crisis. He shared one at Empowered Podcasting about a young mom of two who bought a NOAA weather radio and packed a go bag after listening. When a tornado warning hit her area, the radio alerted her, and she grabbed her kids and the bag and went to the shelter. Her email ended with the line above.

I have a NOAA weather radio (affiliate link) because of Mark. Here in Ohio we get tornado warnings on a fairly regular basis. If you don't have one, get one.

Rob Dalrymple: Real Listeners Before Episode One

Rob hosts the Softball Central Podcast, helping players, parents, coaches, and fans navigate the fastpitch softball world. He jokes that he had real listeners before he even started (or that's optimism and caffeine talking). His coming-soon promo got over 2,000 views, and his three launch episodes racked up over 400 listens and views in the first week.

Not Joe Rogan numbers? I used to teach, and 20 people was a full class. 400 is twenty classrooms. That's a very long hallway of people.

What Rob really wants is community. If you want to test that idea cheaply, Skool runs about nine bucks a month. And to get the rest of the softball world listening: business cards are cheap. Put a QR code on them and hand them out at games. (Rob, I hope to see you inside the School of Podcasting soon.)

Chris Smith: Recognized at Harbor Freight

Chris and his co-host run Cool Cars with Chris, hitting cars-and-coffee events around Southern California and showcasing other people's rides. The show just turned one. The moment it felt real: his co-host was shopping at Harbor Freight and the clerk recognized him from the podcast. A total stranger who found the show in his feed.

Kim Newlove: Six Months, a Florida Student, and a Troll

Kim hosts two shows, The Pharmacist's Voice and The Perrysburg Podcast, and both took about six months to feel real.

  • The Pharmacist's Voice: after episode 22, a pharmacy student in Miami messaged her on LinkedIn about her poison-prevention volunteer work. She's in Ohio, he's in Florida. That's when she knew she was reaching beyond people who already knew her. Now people ask for pictures with her at pharmacist conferences and tag her on social media. Her guests promoting their episodes tells her they're listening too.
  • The Perrysburg Podcast: episode 20 featured the city's crime prevention specialist and public information officer talking about porch pirates around Christmas. Both offered to share it on the city and police social channels. For the first time she had help promoting, the comments rolled in ("I didn't know Perrysburg had a podcast!"), and the downloads took off.
  • The troll: she interviewed someone a listener didn't like, and he let her have it. Annoying, but proof people are listening.

Two things I'd do differently: Kim was told to launch with 20 episodes and waited until then to promote. That recommendation was not from me. Record test episodes if you want (even 20 versions of episode one), but promote the minute your show is live. Getting no downloads while nobody knows you exist can be soul-crushing.

And a tip on pictures: if someone says "I listen to your show," they may want a photo but feel awkward asking. Beat them to it: "It's so great meeting you. Can I get a picture with you?"

My Answer: A Voicemail From Germany

I was bankrupt, divorced, and living in my brother's basement when I started podcasting. Less than six weeks in, I got a voicemail from Michael Van Laar in Nuremberg, Germany, and about fell out of my chair. I was in nowhere, Ohio. Another time I announced a speaking gig and Kale Nelson reached out because it was near him and offered to take me to dinner. Same lesson: somebody's out there.

And I still say you're not a real podcaster until you get a one-star review. You moved somebody. Just not the way you wanted.

Make It Easy for People to Reach You

The theme here is people reaching out. So:

  1. Have a clear "Contact" button on your website.
  2. Test it right now. Send yourself a message and make sure it arrives.

Every year when I do my favorite-episodes round-up, I find shows where the only way to reach the host is an Instagram DM. Everybody understands email. Use whatever you like, but make it easy.

An Apology to Chris and Albert

Fan List (I love Pat over there) had a bad day and truncated messages to five seconds. So I got exactly "Hey, Dave Jackson" from Chris Nesi, the king of ed tech, and "Hello, Dave, this is Albert Bermanti from Mental Rehearsal Podcast" from Albert. Chris even re-recorded after I asked on Saturday's live show. Since I use Captivate, I can drop their full answers into this episode dynamically later, so if you hear them, that's why.

For now, schoolofpodcasting.com/question lets you upload a file or leave a voicemail, and the new "Leave Voicemail" button goes to schoolofpodcasting.com/voicemail, the voicemail system built into PodPage (two-minute limit).

Speaking of Albert: Mental Rehearsal is the show where, at our School of Podcasting listener party, we all asked "when is this going live?" If you're a perfectionist, check out his August 16 episode on dealing with perfectionism.

Nobody Mentioned a Big Number

Not one person said "when I passed a million downloads." It was always that somebody was listening. If you're "only" getting 60 downloads an episode, that's three classrooms.

Go to buzzsprout.com/stats. As I record this in October 2026, the median is 27 downloads per episode after seven days. Half of shows get more, half get less. The top 1% are close to 5,000.

But as Ray from Around the Layout says, it's not how many, it's who many. 2,000 people who love knitting but never want to start a podcast aren't my audience. Podcasting is like golf or bowling: you're only as good as your last game, and comparing yourself to someone who's played longer (or had John Lee Dumas's savings runway) doesn't help.

Be Careful: People Might Actually Do What You Say

New podcasters freak out because nobody's listening, then freak out because people are. I once consulted with a guy who owned both a Zoom PodTrak P4 and a RØDECaster. Why both? "You said it was cool." That's $600 he didn't need to spend. People listen, and they might act on what you say.

Please Don't Email Me Your Answer

I say this with love: use schoolofpodcasting.com/question. Everything lands in MediaFire (which notifies me) or Fan List. Email is a third place, and I get roughly 80 emails a day, 79 of them junk. Your answer will get lost. And if you emailed me and I never answered, reach out again. While we're at it: that "I'd love to be a guest on your show" email is probably a bot. Want to learn how to pitch yourself the right way? Visit pitchapodcast.com, and share any good (or bad) pitches you've received.

If you want your podcast ready by January, now's the time to start planning. It's not about starting quickly, it's about starting correctly. My free course is at podcastinginsixweeks.com, and if you want hands-on help, head to schoolofpodcasting.com and use the coupon code LISTENER for a monthly, quarterly, or yearly subscription, backed by a 30-day money-back guarantee. Show notes are at schoolofpodcasting.com/1059, courtesy of PodPage.

Shows & Websites Mentioned

This month's contributors

Also mentioned

Mentioned in this episode:

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Question of the Month: What is a "Newbie Podcaster"

Poll Question: What makes someone a “newbie podcaster”? Is it how long they’ve been podcasting or how many episodes they’ve published? Is it something else? How would you define a newbie podcaster? Leave your answer at schoolofpodcasting.com/question by November 27th and don't forget to mention your show and your website address so I can link to it in the show notes. (Please try to keep them under 5 minutes if you can).

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Free Podcast Tips

Frequently Asked Questions

How long does it take to feel like you have real podcast listeners?

Experiences vary widely among podcasters, with guests in this episode reporting timelines ranging from six weeks to a full year before experiencing a breakthrough moment that proved real podcast listeners were tuning in.

What is the median number of podcast downloads per episode?

According to Buzzsprout statistics cited in the episode, the median number of downloads after the first seven days is around 27 per episode, demonstrating that most shows start small.

Why is audience feedback more important than download numbers?

While downloads are a helpful measurement, direct outreach like emails, voicemails, or in-person interactions prove that your content is truly resonating with real podcast listeners and making a tangible impact.

Should new podcasters wait to promote their show until they have multiple episodes?

No, host Dave Jackson strongly advises against waiting until episode 20 to promote, recommending instead that you share your show the minute it launches to avoid the discouragement of publishing with zero visibility.

00:00 - Untitled

00:00 - When Did It Feel Like You Had a "Real" Audience

00:37 - Opening

01:20 - Neal Vaglio of Podmastery

02:31 - Josh Liston from Sake This

03:55 - Mark Lawley From Practical Prepping

05:55 - Rob From Softball Central

08:36 - Chris from Cool Cars with Chris

10:16 - Kim Newlove from The Pharmacists Voice and More

18:44 - Dave's Answer

19:51 - Make it Easy to Contact You

22:46 - Albert From Mental Rehersal

23:14 - Chris Nesi from House of Ed Tech

23:25 - Fanlist is having a bad day

24:20 - schoolofpodcasting.com/voicemail

25:35 - It Wasn't Giant Numbers

25:52 - Buzzsprout Stats

27:05 - Podcasting is Like Golf or Bowling

27:36 - We Don't All Start From the Same Place

28:23 - Nobody Will Listen - On No! They Are Listening!

29:09 - Please Don't Email Me QOTM Answers

31:50 - How to Pitch a Podcast

32:14 - Start your 2027 Podcast NOW

33:12 - Please Share the Show

33:23 - Bloopers

David Jackson:

It is question of the month time, and this month's

 

David Jackson:

question is how long did it take before you felt like you had,

 

David Jackson:

and this is in quotation marks, real listeners, and what made

 

David Jackson:

you realize that? Now, if you don't feel like you have real

 

David Jackson:

listeners, what would make it feel real? And you'll see with

 

David Jackson:

this question and next month's question, I'm trying to

 

David Jackson:

understand and set expectations for new podcasters. Let's hear

 

David Jackson:

what you guys had to say. Hit it, ladies.

 

David Jackson:

The SOP Singers: The School of Podcasting with Dave Jackson,

 

David Jackson:

podcasting since 2005. I am your award-winning

 

David Jackson:

Hall of Fame podcast coach, Dave Jackson. Thanking you so much

 

David Jackson:

for tuning in. If you're new to the show, this is where we help

 

David Jackson:

you plan, launch, and grow your podcast. You want to monetize

 

David Jackson:

it? Yeah, we can help you with that as well. The website is

 

David Jackson:

schoolofpodcasting.com. If you go to schoolofpodcasting.com/

 

David Jackson:

1059, you'll find today's show notes, and that's brought to you

 

David Jackson:

by podpage.com. And so, our first answer was already

 

David Jackson:

recorded live on Ask the Podcast Coach. I had Neil Valeo from Pod

 

David Jackson:

Mastery Podcasting Insights Show. You've heard me mention

 

David Jackson:

him before, and my regular co-host was out, and I asked

 

David Jackson:

Neil to sit in the chair. And I said, "Hey, before we leave, how

 

David Jackson:

about you answer this question? When do you feel like you have a

 

David Jackson:

real audience, and he said

 

Neal Veglio:

feedback for me, 100%. If you get an email from

 

Neal Veglio:

somebody, and and I'm delighted, like seeing the download number.

 

Neal Veglio:

In fact, I did an episode about this just yesterday. That you

 

Neal Veglio:

know, you've got like Rob Walsh, our mutual friend, did a whole

 

Neal Veglio:

spiel on don't crap on the download, and fundamentally he's

 

Neal Veglio:

right because it is the only measurement we got right now.

 

Neal Veglio:

But a download is a number. Getting an email or a text

 

Neal Veglio:

message or some you know outreach from your community

 

Neal Veglio:

that really makes the difference between okay, I'm putting

 

Neal Veglio:

content out and hoping for the best, and oh, this is impacting.

 

Neal Veglio:

People are resonating with this, and it's it's absolutely

 

Neal Veglio:

achieving the goals that I set out to achieve. So that for me

 

Neal Veglio:

is 100%. If I get an email, I'm I'm celebrating. That's it.

 

David Jackson:

Excellent. Let's stick with accents and go over

 

David Jackson:

to Josh Listen from the Saki This Show.

 

Josh Liston:

G'day, Dave. G'day, SAP. Is Josh here from

 

Josh Liston:

sakethis.com? Sake This is a short form sketch show all about

 

Josh Liston:

news, trivia, and travel stories from the amazing country of

 

Josh Liston:

Japan. If you've got a spare couple of minutes and you're

 

Josh Liston:

chasing a laugh, maybe check it out. So the first time that I

 

Josh Liston:

ever felt like I had a real audience, that I was having real

 

Josh Liston:

impact was on a hyper local show that I host called Punching

 

Josh Liston:

Sideways. I had multiple people, and my co-host Mel did as well,

 

Josh Liston:

tell us we listened to your show to know if we wanted to move

 

Josh Liston:

here, or we got moved here for work or through the military or

 

Josh Liston:

whatever it was, and we wanted to know what's the local music

 

Josh Liston:

scene like. Who are the sports stars? What's the art scene

 

Josh Liston:

like? Are there comedians there? All of these things they learnt

 

Josh Liston:

from our little podcast, which we really just made to make each

 

Josh Liston:

other laugh. Absolutely mind-boggling. It took a fair

 

Josh Liston:

while to get to that point, though, guys. So just stick with

 

Josh Liston:

it. That's the key. Anyways, thank you, Dave. Thanks,

 

Josh Liston:

everybody. Josh and Sarkoy, this signing off.

 

David Jackson:

Josh, thank you so much. And I should have said

 

David Jackson:

this at the beginning. I always assume you know this, but links

 

David Jackson:

to everybody's show will be in the show notes. Next up, we have

 

David Jackson:

Mark from Practical Prepping. Info.

 

Mark Lawley:

Hey, Dave. Mark Lawley from Practical Prepping.

 

Mark Lawley:

Like everyone else, we looked a lot at the download numbers when

 

Mark Lawley:

we first started, but the realization that we had real

 

Mark Lawley:

listeners came at around one year when we started getting

 

Mark Lawley:

emails from listeners. Some were thanking us for a specific

 

Mark Lawley:

episode or even suggesting episode topic, but the ones that

 

Mark Lawley:

really struck home were the ones where a listener told us they

 

Mark Lawley:

had followed our advice and how it had them prepared for a

 

Mark Lawley:

severe weather event or even a personal crisis. I told the

 

Mark Lawley:

story at Empowered Podcasting about a young lady with two

 

Mark Lawley:

small children that had bought a NOAA weather radio, and every

 

Mark Lawley:

household should have one of those. And she had prepared a go

 

Mark Lawley:

bag as well. And there was an outbreak of tornadoes in her

 

Mark Lawley:

area. When there was a tornado warning for her area, she

 

Mark Lawley:

grabbed the children in the bag and she went to the local

 

Mark Lawley:

shelter. And she said. She would not have known about the warning

 

Mark Lawley:

had she not bought the weather radio, and she would not have

 

Mark Lawley:

had everything she needed for the children had she not

 

Mark Lawley:

prepackaged the bag. She ended her email by saying, "Yesterday,

 

Mark Lawley:

you and Krista saved lives." So let me encourage your listeners:

 

Mark Lawley:

if you don't have a NOAA weather radio to alert you to severe

 

Mark Lawley:

weather, get one. Thank you, Dave, for all you do. Again,

 

Mark Lawley:

this is Mark Lawley, co-host of Practical Prepping. You can find

 

Mark Lawley:

everything that we do at practicalprepping.info.

 

David Jackson:

Thank you, Mark. And you can go over to

 

David Jackson:

practicalprepping.info, and I'm sure he's got a link to that

 

David Jackson:

radio. I know I have one because of Mark, and we have tornadoes

 

David Jackson:

go through Ohio on a fairly regular basis. More

 

David Jackson:

thunderstorms, but yeah, it's a good thing to have. Next up, we

 

David Jackson:

have Rob.

 

Rob Dalrymple:

Hey, Dave, this is Rob Darrenpole from the

 

Rob Dalrymple:

Softball Central Podcast. You can find

 

Rob Dalrymple:

us@softballcentralpodcast.com. We help players, parents,

 

Rob Dalrymple:

coaches, and fans navigate the fast pitch softball world. The

 

Rob Dalrymple:

question is, how long did it take before we felt like we had

 

Rob Dalrymple:

real listeners? Honestly, I think we had them before we even

 

Rob Dalrymple:

started. Of course, that may be just optimism, caffeine, or

 

Rob Dalrymple:

complete misunderstanding of how podcasting works. When we

 

Rob Dalrymple:

released the coming soon promo, we got over 2000 views. Then we

 

Rob Dalrymple:

launched three episodes on day one and racked up over 400

 

Rob Dalrymple:

listens and views in the first week. Not exactly Joe Rogan

 

Rob Dalrymple:

numbers, I know.

 

David Jackson:

All right, I'm going to jump in here. I used to

 

David Jackson:

teach, and 20 people was a full class. And so, if that's 400 per

 

David Jackson:

episode, that is 20 classrooms of people. So think about that.

 

David Jackson:

That's a very long hallway of of people. Holy cow! Nice job.

 

Rob Dalrymple:

But nobody was more excited than us. The

 

Rob Dalrymple:

downloads and the views and the listens; those are great and

 

Rob Dalrymple:

everything. But I really want to build a community, you know, and

 

Rob Dalrymple:

have people interact with the show.

 

David Jackson:

I will put a link to school if you just want to.

 

David Jackson:

If you're not sure if it's going to work and you want to kind of

 

David Jackson:

test that idea, school was only nine bucks a month for a

 

David Jackson:

community.

 

Unknown:

I've been soaking up all of your excellent free

 

Unknown:

advice, but apparently, listening to a podcast above

 

Unknown:

podcasting doesn't make you a podcaster. Go figure.

 

David Jackson:

Yep, you gotta actually, you know, record and

 

David Jackson:

publish that kind of stuff with an RSS feed.

 

Unknown:

I know it's time to stop trying to piece everything

 

Unknown:

together myself and join the school of podcasting.

 

David Jackson:

Use the coupon code listener when you sign up

 

David Jackson:

for either a monthly, quarterly, or yearly subscription.

 

Unknown:

Some personalized coaching. My wife might call it

 

Unknown:

spending money on another hobby. I'm calling it investing in the

 

Unknown:

future of softball media,

 

David Jackson:

and more importantly, investing in

 

David Jackson:

yourself because that skill goes into your brain to take into

 

David Jackson:

other places.

 

Unknown:

Sounds more professional. I'm going to write

 

Unknown:

that down. Chelsea, Dave, thank you for everything you do. You

 

Unknown:

make my Monday every week, and I really appreciate all the

 

Unknown:

knowledge, humor, and encouragement you share. Now I

 

Unknown:

just need to figure out how to get the rest of the softball

 

Unknown:

world to listen to us as faithfully as I listen to you.

 

David Jackson:

You can start with business cards; they're

 

David Jackson:

cheap. Have a QR code on it and hand them out at games.

 

Unknown:

Keep up the great work, buddy. Ciao.

 

David Jackson:

Thank you, Rob. Hope to see you on the inside

 

David Jackson:

very soon. Next up, we have Chris.

 

Chris Smith:

Hey, what's happening? I am Chris of Cool

 

Chris Smith:

Cars with Chris. You can find that@coolcarswithchris.com. And

 

Chris Smith:

like the name says, it's a show about cool cars. You see, I got

 

Chris Smith:

a cool car. I love cars, and my co host he also has a cool car,

 

Chris Smith:

and he definitely loves cars. And we go to the cars and coffee

 

Chris Smith:

events all around Southern California, and we meet other

 

Chris Smith:

people with their cool cars, and we basically showcase their

 

Chris Smith:

cars, talk about cars and cool cars and car-related content on

 

Chris Smith:

the show. And the show really has only been around for I think

 

Chris Smith:

we just turned a year just recently. And to answer your

 

Chris Smith:

question, how long has it been since we actually realized you

 

Chris Smith:

probably made it. Well, I'd say probably this year because just

 

Chris Smith:

the other day, my co-host told me a story. He said he was in

 

Chris Smith:

Harbor Freight just buying some random stuff, and he said the

 

Chris Smith:

clerk there actually recognized him from the podcast and said,

 

Chris Smith:

"Hey, I was going to tell you I started listening to your show,

 

Chris Smith:

and I guess he said he just found it in his feed or

 

Chris Smith:

something. I don't know how he actually found the show, but he

 

Chris Smith:

was actually listening to the show. Imagine that meeting a

 

Chris Smith:

totally random stranger at a store saying they listen to your

 

Chris Smith:

show and they recognize you from the podcast. I think that's

 

Chris Smith:

super cool. I would say probably this whole. Year so far has been

 

Chris Smith:

pretty amazing, and that is that. So, if you want to find

 

Chris Smith:

out more about us, you go to coolcarswithchris.com, drive

 

Chris Smith:

safe, and we'll see you later.

 

David Jackson:

Thank you, Chris. That's cool. Next up, we've got

 

David Jackson:

Kim

 

Kim Newlove:

Dave. Jeez, you ask the easy questions. Hi, this is

 

Kim Newlove:

Kim Newlove from the Pharmacist's Voice podcast and

 

Kim Newlove:

the Perrysburg podcast. It took me about six months with each

 

Kim Newlove:

podcast to feel like I had real listeners. The Pharmacists'

 

Kim Newlove:

Voice podcast explores pharmacy topics and careers, so my

 

Kim Newlove:

audience feels connected to the profession of pharmacy and

 

Kim Newlove:

inspired to contribute to it, the website is

 

Kim Newlove:

thepharmacistsvoice.com. Now, after I published episode 22 of

 

Kim Newlove:

the Pharmacist Voice podcast, I got a LinkedIn message from a

 

Kim Newlove:

pharmacy student in Miami, Florida, saying that he heard

 

Kim Newlove:

that I volunteered to do poisoning prevention education.

 

Kim Newlove:

So my volunteer work resonated with him. I felt like I was

 

Kim Newlove:

really getting through to someone when this happened. I'm

 

Kim Newlove:

in Ohio, he's in Florida. I'm a pharmacist. He was a student, so

 

Kim Newlove:

I realized I was reaching more than Ohioans and more than just

 

Kim Newlove:

pharmacists, and that made me feel like I was reaching more

 

Kim Newlove:

than just people who already know me, people who are local to

 

Kim Newlove:

me, people who know me from conferences, etc. I felt like I

 

Kim Newlove:

was really reaching someone. Over the years, I've also gotten

 

Kim Newlove:

emails and voicemails with people pitching themselves as

 

Kim Newlove:

guests, or recommending guests, nominating guests, asking me to

 

Kim Newlove:

cover certain topics, or asking me to do drug pronunciation that

 

Kim Newlove:

they struggle with for my drug pronunciation series on the

 

Kim Newlove:

podcast, and I currently feel like I have real listeners when

 

Kim Newlove:

I go to a pharmacist conference and people walk up to me and

 

Kim Newlove:

say, "Hey, I want to get a picture with the pharmacist

 

Kim Newlove:

voice." I know they're half joking, but they take the

 

Kim Newlove:

picture and then they actually post it on social media and they

 

Kim Newlove:

tag me. I'm a little embarrassed, but I do think

 

Kim Newlove:

that's really cool. People are listening.

 

David Jackson:

Okay, I'm going to jump in here. In the event

 

David Jackson:

somebody recognizes you and they ask, and they they're like,

 

David Jackson:

"Hey, I listened to your show." They're probably wanting to ask

 

David Jackson:

you, "Can I get a picture with you?" But they might be

 

David Jackson:

embarrassed, so you should recommend, "Hey, it's so great

 

David Jackson:

meeting you. Can I get a picture with you?" And that opens the

 

David Jackson:

door, and they're like, "Yeah, can I take one too?"

 

Unknown:

I feel like people are listening when my guests promote

 

Unknown:

our podcast interviews on their website or social media too. I

 

Unknown:

feel like, yeah, they're listening. They're happy they

 

Unknown:

were on my podcast, and they want other people to know about

 

Unknown:

it. So that's cool. My other show is called the Perrysburg

 

Unknown:

Podcast. The Perrysburg Podcast is a resource for Perrysburg

 

Unknown:

residents. We talk about what's in Perrysburg, Ohio, and why

 

Unknown:

people like to live here. The website is

 

Unknown:

perrysburgpodcast.com. I had just published episode 20, and

 

Unknown:

then some magic happened. Episode 20 was about porch

 

Unknown:

pirates, and it was around Christmas time. Porch pirates

 

Unknown:

are those thieves who take your packages off your porch that get

 

Unknown:

delivered around Christmas time. Porch pirates. So there you go.

 

David Jackson:

All right. On this one, Kim kind of took us on

 

David Jackson:

the scenic route, but there's some interesting tips here, not

 

David Jackson:

just about when did it feel like she had a real audience, but

 

David Jackson:

also about growing your show.

 

Unknown:

Once upon a time, somebody had told me that I

 

Unknown:

should launch my podcast with at least 20 episodes,

 

David Jackson:

and that person was not me. And Kim waited till

 

David Jackson:

she had 20 episodes to start promoting the show.

 

Unknown:

So episode 20 was an interview with Perrysburg,

 

Unknown:

Ohio's crime prevention specialist for the you know city

 

Unknown:

of Perrysburg's police division, and also I had the public

 

Unknown:

information officer on that episode as well. After the

 

Unknown:

interview, I told both of them that I'd be promoting the

 

Unknown:

episode on the Perrysburg, Ohio Facebook group, which has like

 

Unknown:

20,000 some participants, and it's a great way to get the word

 

Unknown:

out about something. Both the public information officer and

 

Unknown:

the police officer that I interviewed offered to promote

 

Unknown:

the episode through the city of Perrysburg's social media

 

Unknown:

channels and the police division's social media

 

Unknown:

channels, for the first time in the life of the podcast, I felt

 

Unknown:

like I had help with promotion, and that felt good. But then,

 

Unknown:

when all the posts went up, people were commenting like,

 

Unknown:

"Hey.". I didn't know Perrysburg had a podcast, and at that

 

Unknown:

point, I felt like people were listening. I mean, they were

 

Unknown:

commenting, so that was social proof. But you could see it in

 

Unknown:

the downloads too. The downloads took off after that. I felt

 

Unknown:

seen.

 

David Jackson:

So number one, I would not record. I might record

 

David Jackson:

20 episodes, but a lot of those would be tests. Like it might be

 

David Jackson:

20 versions of episode one type of thing. So that would be not

 

David Jackson:

something I recommend. And number two, I definitely

 

David Jackson:

recommend promoting the show the minute it's available because

 

David Jackson:

that can help keep you going because when you don't get any

 

David Jackson:

downloads and nobody's watching, that can just be soul crushing.

 

David Jackson:

So don't wait till episode 20 to start promoting your show. But

 

David Jackson:

Kim had one more way that made her feel like she had a real

 

David Jackson:

audience,

 

Unknown:

and I've even had a troll. I don't know if I'm

 

Unknown:

supposed to say this, but you can tell people are listening

 

Unknown:

when they throw some shade. I interviewed somebody that this

 

Unknown:

troll didn't like, and he let me have it. So I'm sorry to be

 

Unknown:

negative, but hey, it's proof that people are listening,

 

Unknown:

right? I am a student of the School of Podcasting, and I

 

Unknown:

really appreciate everything you've done for me. Thanks for

 

Unknown:

all you do, Dave, and happy podcasting, everyone.

 

David Jackson:

When did I feel like I had an audience? I'll

 

David Jackson:

answer that in just a second.

 

David Jackson:

The SOP Singers: The School of Podcasting, yeah, yeah, yeah.

 

David Jackson:

Mine was pretty easy, and I've told this story

 

David Jackson:

before. I am bankrupt and divorced in my brother's

 

David Jackson:

basement. I start a podcast, and I'm going to say it was less

 

David Jackson:

than six weeks. I got a voicemail from Michael Van Laar

 

David Jackson:

from Nuremberg, Germany, and I about fell out of my chair

 

David Jackson:

because I was in nowhere, Ohio, so that's an example. I remember

 

David Jackson:

once when I was doing a speaking gig, I had announced I was going

 

David Jackson:

to be in some city, and Kale Nelson reached out to me and

 

David Jackson:

said, "Hey, that's kind of in my neighborhood. Can I take you to

 

David Jackson:

dinner?" And I mean, we could go on for hours, but even that

 

David Jackson:

again is feedback that hey, there's someone here. But just

 

David Jackson:

realize that it does take time. Josh talked about that. We all

 

David Jackson:

know it takes time. Another thing for me, I joke about this.

 

David Jackson:

I don't think you're a real podcaster till you have a one

 

David Jackson:

star review, because that's really when you've moved

 

David Jackson:

somebody now, not in the way you wanted to, but there is that.

 

David Jackson:

But one of the things that is kind of a theme here is where

 

David Jackson:

people reached out to you in one way or another, and make sure of

 

David Jackson:

two things. Number one, make sure you have a clear, you know,

 

David Jackson:

navigation, some sort of button that says contact, and when it

 

David Jackson:

goes there, you yourself should go there right now and send

 

David Jackson:

yourself a message and make sure you get it, because there are

 

David Jackson:

times when I've reached out to people when I do my what's your

 

David Jackson:

favorite podcast episodes at the end of the year, I reach out to

 

David Jackson:

other people to say, "Hey, you know, so and so liked your

 

David Jackson:

show," and I can't because the only way to contact them is to

 

David Jackson:

DM them on Instagram. No, everybody understands email.

 

David Jackson:

That would be my preferred method. But and I realize you're

 

David Jackson:

like, nah, man, TikTok. Okay, well, just whatever. Just make

 

David Jackson:

sure that if you want feedback, you make it super easy. For me,

 

David Jackson:

you can go to schoolofpodcasting.com/voicemail,

 

David Jackson:

and in a minute, I will talk about why I might be using that

 

David Jackson:

more in the future. And I owe Chris and Albert an apology.

 

David Jackson:

That's not really my fault, but

 

Unknown:

it is. The School of Podcasting, yeah, yeah, yeah.

 

David Jackson:

All right, I want to give a couple quick

 

David Jackson:

shoutouts. One, and this is actually a great show. This is

 

David Jackson:

the show that when Albert did a listener party at the School of

 

David Jackson:

Podcasting, where we all listen to your show and give you

 

David Jackson:

feedback. We're all like, when is this going live? And it's at

 

David Jackson:

mental rehearsal dot show. He's got a great episode. He has a

 

David Jackson:

lot of great episodes over there. But if you're a

 

David Jackson:

perfectionist, definitely check out the august 16 episode on

 

David Jackson:

dealing with perfectionism. And the other person I want to shout

 

David Jackson:

out is Chris Nessie? Chris is C H R I S. Nessie is N E S I. He

 

David Jackson:

is the king of ed tech, and both Albert and Chris sent in

 

David Jackson:

messages. And I hate to do this because I love Pat over at Fan

 

David Jackson:

List, but it failed. And so I reached out on. I know Chris

 

David Jackson:

listens on Saturday, and I'm like, "Hey, if you left me a

 

David Jackson:

message on Fan List, it's truncating them down to five

 

David Jackson:

seconds." And Chris actually went over and left his answer

 

David Jackson:

again.

 

Chris Nesi:

Hey, Dave Jackson. I mean

 

David Jackson:

the. And here's Albert.

 

Albert Bermanti:

Hello, Dave. This is Albert Bermanti from

 

Albert Bermanti:

Mental Rehearsal Podcast,

 

David Jackson:

and that's all I got. And it's truncated to five

 

David Jackson:

seconds. I left myself a message. I saw it in the

 

David Jackson:

dashboard. It was over a minute long. I went to bed. I woke up

 

David Jackson:

the next day. It was truncated down to five seconds. So Pat is

 

David Jackson:

having a bad day over at Fan List, so I think at least for

 

David Jackson:

now I'll be sending people where when you go to

 

David Jackson:

schoolofpodcasting.com/question, you can upload a file, which is

 

David Jackson:

what most people do because you're podcasters and you

 

David Jackson:

recorded it. But it's also really easy to click and leave a

 

David Jackson:

voicemail, and so now I have a button that says "Leave

 

David Jackson:

Voicemail," which takes you to schoolofpodcasting.com/voicemail,

 

David Jackson:

which is the voicemail system that is built into Podpage. Now,

 

David Jackson:

if I and that's going to limit you to two minutes. Two minutes

 

David Jackson:

is a pretty long time to leave a message. Now, if I wanted

 

David Jackson:

something longer, I could use like Speak pipe or something

 

David Jackson:

like that, and I'm sure Pat will fix whatever's going on at Fan

 

David Jackson:

List. But I just wanted to say I'm sorry, even though it's not

 

David Jackson:

really my fault. To again Albert over at Mental Rehearsal Show

 

David Jackson:

and Chris over at Chris Nessie.com. And here's the

 

thing:

here's what's fun because I use Captivate. In the event

 

thing:

they sent in their actions, their actions, yeah, their

 

thing:

answers, it will be right here. And if you didn't hear anything,

 

thing:

they didn't. But if you did, I put them in later dynamically.

 

thing:

So there we go. Notice nobody said when I went over a million

 

thing:

downloads, or when I had, we never heard any giant numbers.

 

thing:

It was simply the fact that somebody was listening, and

 

thing:

that's when I hear people say like, "Oh, I only got 60

 

thing:

downloads an episode." That's three classrooms. If you go out

 

thing:

to buzzsprout.com/stats, they actually. have a page, and you

 

thing:

can see where the median number is probably a lot lower than you

 

thing:

think it is right now. As I look at it here in October of 2026,

 

thing:

it's 27. 27. What, Dave? 27 downloads per episode. Now that

 

thing:

means 50% get more and 50% get less. The top 1% on Buzzsprout

 

thing:

is close to 5000. That's after seven days, so keep that in

 

thing:

mind. So when you say 27, that's after the first week. So compare

 

thing:

your numbers and see where you're at. But realize that's

 

thing:

not really the key. My buddy Ray over at Around the Layout says

 

thing:

it's not how many, it's who many. It's the who that matters

 

thing:

because if I had you know 2000 people that love knitting but

 

thing:

never want to start a podcast, that's not really a great

 

thing:

audience for me. I'm looking for entrepreneurs and people that

 

thing:

want to start a podcast. So keep that in mind. Comparing

 

thing:

downloads, I often say, podcasting is a lot like golf or

 

thing:

bowling. You're only as good as your last game, and you can't

 

thing:

really compare yourself to others because they've been

 

thing:

doing the sport longer, and it really doesn't matter what they

 

thing:

do. In the end, the results are only based on you, and that kind

 

thing:

of makes some people wet their pants because they take it

 

thing:

personal. But there are other things. For example, back back

 

thing:

in the day, John Lee Dumas was a guy that just had this

 

thing:

incredibly popular show called Entrepreneurs on Fire. Well,

 

thing:

John had a lot of money in the bank. He was very good at saving

 

thing:

money, so he had a much longer runway to just do podcasting,

 

thing:

and his podcast took off because it was unique. It was it was a

 

thing:

good show, and John is still doing it. John made so much

 

thing:

money he had to move to Puerto Rico to lessen his tax load.

 

thing:

Yeah, that's a good problem to have. So keep that in mind. It's

 

thing:

not always about the downloads, but it is cool when you realize,

 

thing:

hey, people are listening, and the fun part is, new podcasters

 

thing:

freak out because they're afraid nobody's listening, and then

 

thing:

they freak out because oh my gosh, people are listening. I

 

thing:

know once I had a interesting. Situation where I was consulting

 

thing:

with a guy and he had a Zoom Podtrack P4 and he had a Rode

 

thing:

Podcaster. I think it was the the whatever the the podcaster

 

thing:

one, the big one. It's like 600 bucks. And I go, wait, why do

 

thing:

you have both?

 

thing:

And he said, oh, you said it was cool. So you have to be careful

 

thing:

sometimes. I was like, "Dude, you just spent $600 that you

 

thing:

didn't need to spend." So be careful sometimes, and realize

 

thing:

that people not only are going to listen to you, but they might

 

thing:

actually do what you ask. Yeah, yeah, yeah. One last thing, and

 

thing:

I say this with love and compassion and with gratitude.

 

thing:

Please do not email me your answer. There's a reason I say

 

thing:

go to school at podcasting.com/question because

 

thing:

then everything ends up in one of two places: either in my

 

thing:

MediaFire account, which is what I use to make that upload box,

 

thing:

or it's in Fan List. And when you email it to me, it's a third

 

thing:

place, and I I cannot stress this enough. My inbox is an

 

thing:

absolute disaster. Like I get probably literally 80 emails a

 

thing:

day, of which 79 of them are absolute crap, and so it's very

 

thing:

easy to get lost in my inbox, so when you answer the question,

 

thing:

please again. I appreciate that you're being thorough and you

 

thing:

want to make sure I got it. I really do, but especially

 

thing:

MediaFire. If you're uploading it there, it actually notifies

 

thing:

me when it's there. You can email at me if you if you want

 

thing:

to. I just told you not to, but if you want to, you can. Just

 

thing:

realize if later you go, hey, you didn't use my answer. I

 

thing:

emailed it to you. I will simply say it got lost in my inbox

 

thing:

because it's very very likely that it's going to. It's

 

thing:

something I'm working on. Just for the record, I block and

 

thing:

delete and mark as spam and all this other stuff. So if you've

 

thing:

ever emailed me and like, hey, Dave always says answer every

 

thing:

email, but he didn't answer mine. Reach out again because

 

thing:

literally every day. I'm not exaggerating. When I, you know

 

thing:

how tall when you go into Gmail from the top of Gmail to the

 

thing:

bottom of Gmail, that first page, I just click on the first

 

thing:

one. I read who it's from. I look at the title, and nine

 

thing:

times out of 10, I hold down the shift button, click on the

 

thing:

bottom, and just say delete because they're all just crap.

 

thing:

My favorite, I think, a lot of this is because I've gone to so

 

thing:

many events, is my email has been sold. Now, how do I know

 

thing:

that? Because at PodPage we get almost on a weekly basis

 

thing:

somebody saying, "Do you want to buy the list from this

 

thing:

particular show?" And so I think that's how I ended up on so many

 

thing:

people's lists, and it just seems like no amount of blocking

 

thing:

and spam marking and just every day, there's more, and plus, I

 

thing:

know some people said, "Hey, I felt like it was a real podcast

 

thing:

when somebody asked to be on my show." That might be a bot, and

 

thing:

probably is. Or, and if you want to hear how to pitch yourself to

 

thing:

a podcast, go over to pitchapodcast.com. And if you

 

thing:

have a good or bad pitch that came your way, be sure to share

 

thing:

it over there. Speaking of that, so thanks so much for everybody

 

thing:

who sent in their answers. Again, my apologies to Chris and

 

thing:

Albert for not getting their answer in here. In the event you

 

thing:

didn't hear their answer, and if you need help with your podcast,

 

thing:

I can help. I you know look, it's look at the calendar.

 

thing:

October's toast, and if you want to have your podcast ready by

 

thing:

January, now is the time to start working on it because you

 

thing:

want to do a little planning. It's it's it's not really. I

 

thing:

mean, I do a podcasting in six weeks course. You can find

 

thing:

that@podcastinginsixweeks.com, but it's not really about

 

thing:

getting it started quickly. It's about getting it started

 

thing:

correctly, and that sometimes takes some thought, takes some

 

thing:

research, and I would love to help you do that. I've been

 

thing:

doing it for over 20 years, and I would love to see what we

 

thing:

could do together. The website again, schoolofpodcasting.com.

 

thing:

I'm Dave Jackson. I help podcasters. It's what I do, and

 

thing:

I hope to see you on the inside. Until next week, take care. God

 

thing:

bless. Class

 

Unknown:

is dismissed.

 

David Jackson:

And if you're like, I'm not on YouTube, there

 

David Jackson:

are things you can learn about your episodic artwork that

 

David Jackson:

simply applies to your. Oh, geez, that's that's just

 

David Jackson:

horrible. And you can find. At mentalrehearsal.com, except

 

David Jackson:

that's not the address, you idiot. It's

 

David Jackson:

mentalrehearsal.show.

 

Unknown:

Yeah.

 

 

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