From Rambling to Riveting: Podcast Speaking and Editing Tips That Work

My friend George Robb of the Geologic Podcast has

had many opportunities come his way. Why? Because he took

advantage of every opportunity that came his way. He prepared

and he overdelivered. And so realize every time you fire up

the microphone, it's an opportunity to stand on a stage,

and a couple weeks ago, I was listening to the Buzzcast from

the lovely people over at Buzzsprout, and they said, "Hey,

if you can answer this question, let us know. I hopped out of the

shower, dried off, grabbed my phone, and left an answer. I

didn't think about it, and you'll hear in a second that I

probably should have. So today we're going to talk about taking

advantage of every opportunity, but we're going to do it through

the lens of editing. Hit it, ladies.

The School of Podcasting with Dave Jackson.

Podcasting since 2005. I am your award-winning

Hall of Fame podcast coach, Dave Jackson. Thanking you so much

for tuning in. If you're new to the show, this is where I help

you plan, launch, and grow your podcast. The address of the

website is School of podcasting.com, courtesy of Pod

Page, and hey, while you're out there, if you want to sign up,

use the coupon code Listener to save on a monthly, quarterly, or

yearly subscription, and of course that comes with a 30-day

money-back guarantee. So there I am. Sorry for the word mental

picture, but I was like, oh, I need to answer this now, so I

dried off, grabbed my phone, and spit out an answer. And I'm

gonna interrupt this here and point out some things because

when you're editing, especially interviews, the first thing you

want to listen for is did they answer the question? And so the

Has a podcast ever changed your mind about

something? And here's what I said on the Buzzcast. All right,

we've got one from Dave Jackson at School of Podcasting. Dave

Jackson from the School of Podcasting and Albin had asked

if a podcast had ever changed my mind, and I listened to Jen

Briney, she does a show called Congressional Dish. She does her

best to try to stay in the middle of the road. It's a

political show, but what I love about it is she will talk about

bills for a while. She was trying to do all the bills,

which is almost impossible, and explain what the bill was about,

and then who voted on what. Does any of that have to do with has

a podcast ever changed your mind? No, and yet I continued,

and there were many times that people from the party I'm

typically the one I typically identify with voted in ways that

I would never vote, and so consequently, when it came time

to go to the polls, I said, "Yeah, time for a new one. So

that's one example of a podcast changing my mind. And so I

finally answered the question. But I know these people, so they

kind of gave me a little ribbing here, Dave. You know I love you,

man, but you are a yapper. He's a podcaster, made for podcaster.

He's a Hall of Famer. He's a national treasure.

You know, she usually talks about the bills.

Not all the bills. She tried to talk all the bills, but you

know, it's kind of hard to talk about all the bills. There's a

lot of bills out there.

And you know how we talk about feedback. We

always say the first thing you have to ask yourself is, do

these people have a point? And the answer is yeah, yeah they

do. So think about this. There's a stage there, and Albin and

Kevin and Jordan are on the stage, and they go, "Hey, would

you like to come up here and answer a question in front of

our audience? And I just grab the mic without even thinking

about it, what I could have said is, "This is Dave Jackson from

the School of Podcasting. I listened to a show called

Congressional Dish by Jen Bryney, who reports on how

people vote in government who are supposed to be representing

me. And when I found out how they voted, well, I didn't vote

for them again, so they changed my mind. There you go, clear,

concise, to the point, answers the question, and that's it. Now

I'm going to take that recording and edit it to like. What do you

do, Dave? That's great. You've just redid the whole thing. I

only interviewed a guest once. Well, then you take what you

have and make the best out of it. Dave Jackson from the School

of Podcasting and Albin had asked if a podcast had ever

changed my mind. I listen to Jen Bryney. She does a show called

Congressional Dish. What I love about it is she will talk about

bills and explain what the bill was about, and then. Who voted

on what? And there were many times that people voted in ways

that I would never vote, and so consequently, when it came time

to go to the polls, I said, "Yeah, time for a new one. So

first thing to Albin, Kevin, and Jordan, thank you, thank you

very much. Why? Because rambling is something I can fix, and it

makes me think. Hey, okay, let's go back, Dave. Where was the

mistake here that led to this rambling? Oh, I was in a hurry.

I didn't really think about it. I was more worried about this

has to be under a minute for their voicemail, and I was like,

"Hey, I got under a minute. Not did what I say make sense. Was I

short and concise and to the point? Didn't think about it,

and this drives me nuts. I'm going to do a session, a

session, an episode in the future where I talk about

speaking and my attitudes towards speaking, and for me,

just to give you a little, you know, peek here, when you are

standing on a stage, I don't care if it's a Zoom meeting, I

don't care if it's empowered podcasting, Pod Indie, Podfest,

Podcast Movement. You are the conference at that moment, you

are the conference, and so when someone says, "Hey, I was the

conference, you have a lot to do on whether or not that person

goes, "Oh, it was great! I can't wait to go back, or "Man, total

waste of time, and so you have to be prepared. Now that doesn't

mean I have to spend five hours to answer a quick question, but

I should think about it a little bit because I'm getting on a

stage. Think about that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. One

of my biggest mistakes that I often edit out

is, and this isn't a horrible thing, but I hear people that

leave this in, and that is you're explaining if you're

doing an interview, and you're explaining to the guest why

you're asking the question, and then later you leave it in. The

audience doesn't need to hear you think through the question,

and so I was watching Billy Billy Corgan. He's the lead

singer and main guy in the Smashing Pumpkins. He has a

YouTube channel called the Magnificent Others. I'll put a

link to that in the show notes. And Billy, from what I

understand, is a very intelligent person and has a

huge amount of knowledge, especially about music, and for

some reason, he likes to give you the behind-the-scenes of why

he's asking a question. And so, I'm going to play. He's

interviewing Michael Sweet from Stryper, and since I said

Striper, that means I got to say this. You guessed it, Invisible

Sky Buddy Alert, Invisible Sky Buddy Alert, beware! And so,

where we're listening for here is the question.

I just want to make a sort of interesting point

because you know when I'm putting together the questions I

want to ask guests, you know, there's a sort of kind of flow.

But I thought this is a good way to sort of set the whole

conversation up, right? Going back to me as a kid, hearing

like they're really into Jesus. The only other time I'd really

heard that from a musician that I was interested in was Mark

Farner of Grand Falls.

Oh yeah,

because at some point Mark had had you know

became a Christian,

born again or whatever, and and and I remember

people talking about it dismissively, and I even

remember some metal fans talking about you guys dismissively.

Like, you know, yeah, but they're into God or what? You

know, it's like this vibe.

So I don't hear a question yet, and he said he was

going to have an interesting point, and I don't hear that yet

either.

But I always think it's funny because, as somebody

who listened to Merciful Fate Slayer and Striper at the same

time. It is strikes me odd that that nobody really blanches at

listening to death metal or scary or satanic metal or you

know whatever. But somehow, somehow God in the mix is like,

whoa, hold on, let's slow down. You're preaching to the choir,

and I've said this in interviews in in different ways. Yeah. All

right. This is Future Dave. This clip goes on

for about another two minutes before he really actually asks

the question. He kept just saying things like, "Take me

back to that time. That's not really a question. It's very

open ended, and it's just not something the audience needs to

hear. We don't need to hear the background of the question. And

I think Billy does a fair amount of planning. I know he he talks

about the research, but in the end, you you do have to ask a

question.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Now. Now you do you, but for me, when I do a

podcast, I like my brain to be as sharp as possible so I can

get my point across. Some celebrities like Bill Maher like

to have a drink or maybe even a smoke, which leads to great

content like this one.

But oh damn! What were we talking about?

Doesn't matter anymore.

No, it doesn't. Oh, there's really an app. It

doesn't really matter. But I could talk. Oh, I know.

And again, that's Bill Maher interviewing Chevy

Chase in this case, and that happens. But you know, edit it

out so you don't sound like you're high, and if your guest

starts into a story, you might want to shut up, and so they

don't do this.

You know, I went to the last show that Sinatra had ever

in L.A. with maybe 20 people, all of whom expected to meet

Frank or were friends of Frank. Sure,

they do that after every concert. Yeah, yeah. The

the celebrities go backstage. There's a little room. Yep. And

then the great one comes out. Whoever just did the show. Yep.

And you have to know exactly how to compliment stars of that

level because even a compliment that's not. Don't

you realize I was in the middle of a story?

I'm sorry, you're right. Go ahead.

Anyway, if

you want to save some time on editing, I edit for

some doctors, and again, you want it to sound conversational,

but one of the things that you do when you're listening to

somebody live is it's called active listening, and you'd be

like, uh huh, hmm, oh wow. You do not want to do that on a

podcast because you're then stepping on the guest. They're

trying to give this great detail about the time they did the

thing, and all of a sudden you're like, excellent. Oh yeah,

mm hmm, yeah. Just it's more work if you're editing things

yourself, and it's a lot of work for the editor. So, active

listening. This is where, even if you're not doing video,

having a video aspect, they can see you nodding your head. They

know you're listening, and it's really great to pick up facial

cues. We all hate the guest that has an answer that well, it's in

the book, and they don't want to talk about it. But sometimes, if

you want someone to talk about a intimate detail, the way you do

that is by getting them to match your intimacy, and so this is a

short from an interview of Sir Anthony Hopkins on by an

interviewer of the New York Times, and what's interesting is

Anthony Hopkins, who is Hannibal Lecter for most of you, among

many many other great movies, great actor, and he put out a

book about his life, and then let the New York Times guy kind

of know he wasn't going to talk about his estranged daughter. So

listen how the New York Times guy throws out his intimate kind

of detail to get him opened up, and also listen to the pauses.

Sometimes we want to take out dead air. No, let the dead air

stay there, especially around very serious subjects, because

the audience gets sucked in, like, well, wait, what's he

gonna say? Check this out.

I know it's sensitive for you. So if I know

what

you're gonna talk about, my domestic life.

Yes.

No. No.

Even though it's in the book.

No. Stung.

So there's no guesswork here. He's like, nope,

not talking about it. And so this is how the reporter

responds.

Can I ask a general question that's not specifically

about the material in the book?

Well,

it's about the

and probably because he's a New York Times

reporter, he's used to kind of pushing until he really hits a

brick wall. So he continues to kind of find a different way to

ask the question.

I'll stumble through this. Part of the reason that

the material in the book about your relationship with your

daughter, your strange relationship with your daughter,

part of the reason why I found it so painful is that it

resonated with me for personal reasons. I've seen my father, I

think, twice in 20 years. You know, I've spoken to him once in

in those 20 years, and I'm very curious about other people's

experience of that kind of estrangement.

And if you didn't notice, hit the back button.

You'll see where his voice is starting to. He's starting to

really feel those words, and yet he pulls it together to finish

the question.

In this instance, the estrangement is my choice, but I

I just wonder if you have thoughts about where

reconciliation might lie between estranged parents and children.

My wife, Stella sent an invitation.

Notice the pauses. Leave them in.

Two. Come and see us. Not a word of response. So I

think okay, fine. Wish her well. I'm not going to waste blood

over that. If you want to waste your life being in resentment,

oh, 50 years later, 58 years later, fine. Go ahead.

More pauses.

It's not in my can. See, we can. I could carry

resentment over the past, this and the other,

thinking out his words.

But that's death. You're not living. You have to

acknowledge one thing: that we are imperfect. We're not saints.

We're all sinners and saints, or whatever we are. We do the best

we can. Life is painful. Sometimes people get hurt.

Sometimes we get hurt. But you can't live like that. You have

to say, "Get over it. And if you can't get over it, fine. Good

luck to you. Again, keep the pauses in. But I have no

judgment. But did what I could. So that's it.

Would do you hope? That's

all I want to say.

Do you hope your daughter reads the book?

I'm not going to answer that. No, I don't care. There's the

wall.

I'll move on.

Please, I want you to, because I don't want to hurt her.

I understand.

I don't want to. I don't want to make any no 20 years the offer

was made, but fine onwards.

And notice what the reporter did during that. He

shut up, shut up. Let them answer the question. Let them

think. Obviously, he's thinking about every single word because

he doesn't want to hurt his daughter, and just shut up and

listen, and you end up with a better answer that way. Because

he could have said, "Well, did you feel like this? Have you

ever done this? And then you make it multiple choice. No,

shut up. Let them think about it, and the answer that's going

to come out on the other side of that silence is much better than

any kind of crappy multiple choice question that you could

have come up with. The

one

thing that can speed up editing, whether it's a

solo show, whether it's guests, whether it's a panel, whatever

it is, the more clearly you see your audience. The easier it is

to edit because you can just say, "Hey, let's say you call

your target audience Greg, or maybe it's Melinda. Whoever it

is, would Greg like this? Would Melinda find this interesting?

And if the answer is no, it's gonna go, and some people are

like, yeah, but won't the interviewer come back and notice

that question number six was removed? No, for in my circles,

the guest, if they come back, will listen to the intro to see

if you said anything, and after it, they don't listen to the

interview because they were there, they don't have to. But

the better you understand your audience and what motivates

them, what inspires them, what's going to save them time, what's

going to save them money, what's going to ease their pain, the

better your show will be.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Hey, a quick pod page update. We've updated the

player, and especially if you're using Anchor, whose player

always directs people back to Anchor, you might want to check

this out. It's under Settings, Media Player, and what this does

is, as always, we pull in your episodes from your RSS feed, and

if you've added chapters and they're in your show notes.

Those will show up in a your chapters tab on your website, or

if it's in your show notes, those are clickable now, and it

will show the image. So if you're adding images to your

chapters, it'll show those, and it puts a link there. So if

you're adding links to your chapters, then you can do that.

So you can, you know, something about a sponsor or whatever. You

can put an image and a link there. Now, if you're new to

chapters, and I'm not getting paid for this, check out

PodCapters.com. That is from my friend Daniel J. Lewis. I use

this product, and I'm here to tell you, it used to take me

hours. To do, ask the podcast coach on Saturday because I was

manually going through and adding my chapters. I upload it

to pod chapters. I let it do my own transcription. It basically

then through you know auto magically comes up with

chapters. I seldomly have to go in and adjust them, and then I

can export it. I get my summary for YouTube. It's amazing. So if

you're using chapters, the Pod Page player is great. Plus, the

color that you picked in Pod Page, as this is my key color,

is the play button. We have a light mode, a dark mode. So

we're always adding new things, or we're taking things that

we've already made at PodPage and making them better. So, if

you're a PodPage user, check that out. If you're not a

PodPage user, go over to PodPage.com/preview. You can

find your show there, or if it's not in like Apple yet, you can

just put in your RSS feed. Or if you're just a YouTuber, you

know, just doing video, you can do that as well and start a

14-day trial. Next week is question of the month. It's the

end. You believe this October is almost over, so we'll be doing

the question of the month. If you haven't answered it yet, go

to schoolofpodcasting.com/question.

Thanks to Ray from aroundthelayout.com. He told me,

hey Dave, I don't know if you noticed it, but last week you

put in September's question of the month. That's the joy of

dynamic stuff. I just wasn't paying attention. So go over to

schoolofpodcasting.com/question. If you answered it last week,

and I'm looking at you, York, I think you answered last week's

question, and that's not your fault. I accidentally had the

wrong question in there. But go over to

schoolboypodcasting.com/question, and I am going to need that. He

said, pulling up a calendar by the Friday before, so that would

be the 23rd. So thank you so much for listening. I really do

appreciate it. Again, the website schoolofpodcasting.com.

Use the coupon code Listener when you sign up for either a

monthly, quarterly, or yearly subscription. I'm Dave Jackson.

I've been helping podcasters for over 20 years, and I can't wait

to see what we're gonna do together. Until next week, take

care. God bless. Class is dismissed.

Yeah.